Vinny Appice Feels Heaven and Hell Would've Continued Had Ronnie James Dio Lived

The Heaven and Hell reunion of the Dio-era Black Sabbath lineup likely would have continued if not for Ronnie James Dio's death. Drummer Vinny Appice shared as much during a chat with Full Metal Jackie about the new Heaven and Hell box set, Breaking Out Of Heaven 2007-2009.

Appice was asked about the band's mindset at the point where Dio had been diagnosed with cancer and he felt that had Dio not had the health setback, a future for the reunited band was likely to continue.

"Oh, yeah. It would have definitely continued," shared Appice, who recalled the organic nature of the Heaven and Hell reunion. What started as some songs for a Black Sabbath Dio-era compilation led to the. reunion, which led to touring and an eventual album. Two live sets along with the record and The Dio Years new recordings all appear on the box set.

The drummer recalled, "We were planning on... Ronnie was getting treatment in 2010, the early beginning of 2010, and we were planning on rehearsing in May and I remember speaking to Ronnie and he said, "Hey, let's get together, me, you and Geezer," because we were in L.A., Tony was in England, "to rehearse a little bit so I can get my voice in shape."  And we said, 'Sure, that's a great idea.'"

But as it turned out, sessions for a second album didn't really come to fruition as Dio's health worsened. Even with Dio facing health issues, there were still plans to tour in the summer and Appice feels another album would have come shortly after.

Within the chat, Appice also shares memories from the Radio City Music Hall show that serves as one of the live components to the box set. He also offers a few memories from the Metal Masters tour, offers his favorite example of collaboration within the group.

The drummer also recalls his past association with Ozzy Osbourne and gave his thoughts on the Back to the Beginning show and he shared what is currently filling his musical time.

Check out more of the chat below.

It's Full Metal Jackie, and super excited to welcome to the show this week the legendary drummer, Vinny Appice. We're here to discuss your time in Heaven and Hell, coinciding with the new Breaking Out Of Heaven 2007-2009 box set. One of the primary things making this set special is the inclusion of the Live from Radio City Hall performance. That truly is an outstanding live show. What are your recollections from that performance?

Believe it or not, my recollection of that show was we came up with a new ending for one of the songs and we were at soundcheck and we wanted to go over the song with the new ending. So as we're playing the song, we're getting close to the end, and all these union guys are onstage going, "Stop, stop, stop, stop."

We're going, "What? They made us stop?" This is Black Sabbath, you know? Come on. it's not some garage band. It was a union break, so we couldn't go over the ending we came up with and we just couldn't believe they stopped us, you know? We were almost there, too, and then "Stop, stop, stop." Union break. It's New York City, so you can't mess with the union in New York City.

Other than that, it was a great performance. Everybody was happy with the performance. There weren't any major train wrecks or anything like that. Even though we've all done this before, it's nerve-racking with video and recording and all the stuff at one time, but we're all happy with it.

Heaven and Hell, "Children of the Sea" (Live from Radio City Music Hall)

Vinny, you've played with multiple bands and been involved with various projects over the years. Each experience is its own thing. As a drummer first coming into Black Sabbath, and then seeing it evolve over the years, what made that time in Sabbath, and eventually Heaven and Hell, unique to you? Was there anything in the approach or the creativity that stood out to you from other things that you'd worked on?

This was going into, I call it the House of Sabbath, but there was a certain sound to Black Sabbath, a certain way Tony [Iommi] and Geezer [Butler] played and that's where I first met Ronnie. So, I had to go in with my eyes open and ears open and fit the mold of Sabbath.

I couldn't just play anything. But I was smart enough to know that and so when I went in, I adjusted to playing a little bit more laid back, the way Iommi plays, and then listening to Ronnie [James Dio] and synchronizing with Ronnie some of the things I did, some of the things he did.

We played together, we played off of each other a lot. It was definitely something different, because all the other things and bands I've been in, Vinny's on drums and Vinny plays what Vinny plays. It's still like that now. And then once I got used to how to play with Tony and Geezer in the band, it became easier.

The main thing was we got along really well. Being that Tony and Geezer are from England, I'm from Brooklyn, New York, Ronnie's from upstate, but Tony and Geezer are all the way from England, we got along like we grew up together after a while. So that made it a lot easier and a lot more creative in the band.

The Heaven and Hell Breaking Out Of Heaven box set is out now. Head to the contest page at fullmetaljackieradio.com to enter to win a copy. It's Full Metal Jackie. Vinny Appice is with us. We're talking about the new Heaven and Hell box set.

Having a seat alongside Tony and Geezer, godfathers of heavy music, and Ronnie, one of metal's iconic voices, it's quite something, but looking back, there's one bill that even I'm dropping a jaw at. What do you recall of the Metal Masters Tour with Judas Priest, Motorhead and Testament? It's like a who's who of metal greats. When you have so much legacy in one place and on hand throughout an entire tour, where do you start, not only as a player, but as a metal fan?

It was just an incredible bill that they put together and fortunately, everybody's friends, so it wasn't that big of a, "Oh my god, it's Judas Priest. Oh my god, it's Alice Cooper and Motorhead," and we did it with Alice Cooper as well, so. But it was great. Testament, right? Motorhead, us, and then Judas Priest. It was just a great bill.

People that came to see the show got their money's worth for sure. It was just a lot of fun. We hung out together. Rob Halford always came down in the early '80s to see Dio when we played in Phoenix and Arizona. He always came down and hung out with us and he was such a great guy. Ronnie was really good friends with him and I became good friends with him. So it was pretty easy, smooth and all that.

And then, Phil from Motorhead, I see it's on the internet now, too, likes to dress in women's clothes. So one birthday, we were on the road with that tour and Ronnie wanted to buy Phil a nice outfit. He went out to the mall to some women's store and bought a dress, a matching purse and did the whole thing for Phil and came back, Phil was so happy. Ronnie bought him this nice outfit from the ladies' store and I remember that always. That was just something unusual. And it was cool, very cool. So rest in peace, Phil. You were crazy and we love you, man.

Vinnie, another great piece on this box set is the Neon Knights' 30 Years of Heaven and Hell that was recorded at Wacken. First, it's such an iconic venue and festival. The crowd is unreal. I have to ask, would this be the favorite performance for your time in the band? And are there certain shows that stand out?

It was definitely one of them. There were so many performances. In the band, once we got going, we were really tight, and it was a great. We did a lot of great shows, and that was just such a tremendous giant show. I  remember seeing people left to right, longer than it usually goes back, you know? That's how many people were there. Just watching them listening to the music was and is incredible. So we were very happy with that performance.

And I'll tell you a story about "Neon Knights." "Neon Knights," when I first joined the band in 1980, I got a call saying, "Hey, you wanna come down and meet Tony Iommi?"

This is in California, in L.A. And I met Tony that night, we hit it off and he said, "Come down to rehearsal." So I brought my drums down in my '67 Mustang, it was a little kit and they set it up for me and then they said, "What do you want to play?" And I wasn't a big giant Sabbath fan. I heard the stuff but I wasn't a fan with anybody I played with really, which was good, because then it was on more of a level of "Let's work together," you know?

But a couple of weeks before, I'm driving in my car and I hear "Neon Knights" on the radio and I thought, "Oh, wow. That sounds great." The new Sabbath with Ronnie James Dio. I had never really heard Ronnie either. I heard him on "Man On a Silver Mountain" but not with Sabbath and I thought this was great. And I listened to the song, and it was pretty easy to play. There's only one break in it. So when they said, "What do you want to play?" I said, "Neon Knights. Let's try that." That was the first song I played with Ronnie and then many, many, many years yet later, the last show we ever did, I think it was in one of the casinos in Atlantic City, the last song we played together was "Neon Knights."

So I've thought about that. That's so weird, because Neon Knights was in the set in the middle, it was the beginning of the set, it was the end of the set once in a while, and here it is the end of the set and that's the last time I played with Ronnie and Tony and Geezer with Ronnie. That same song took us on a journey from the first song to the last song. So that was kind of special. So I'm glad they included that in this package.

Vinnie, with Heaven and Hell, there was initially some thoughts of this being a one-off, but then we ended up getting a full album out of it. I know Ronnie's diagnosis came in November of 2009, but up to that point, how did things feel with Heaven and Hell? Was the mindset feeling like there was more ahead for the group prior to Ronnie's diagnosis? Was Heaven and Hell something that would have probably continued?

Oh, yeah. It would have definitely continued. It started actually, I think, in 2007, when Rhino Records asked for a couple of songs for The Dio Years LP, and they were working with Bill Ward on that, but it wasn't working out. It was taking too much time.

I don't know what happened exactly. I wasn't there. And then they  said, "Let's call Vinnie," and they called me. I went in and we slammed the songs, recorded them quick and it was really easy. So that led to, "Wow, this is kind of fun again. Let's do a tour."  And that's what happened.

It led to a tour, which led to another tour, and then, "Let's do an album." So everything was natural coming up to that point. It wasn't just doing stuff to put product out or anything like that. So that led to the second tour and then the album, The Devil You Know, which is included in this box set. So it happened naturally and it was really, really a lot of fun.

We were planning on... Ronnie was getting treatment in 2010, the early beginning of 2010, and we were planning on rehearsing in May and I remember speaking to Ronnie and he said, "Hey, let's get together, me, you and Geezer," because we were in L.A., Tony was in England, "to rehearse a little bit so I can get my voice in shape."  And we said, "Sure, that's a great idea."

But I remember hearing his voice on the phone call and I thought, "It's a bit unusual for Ronnie to be raspy and kind of having a little bit of effort to talk." But we thought, "Ronnie's strong, he's the leader, he's tough from New York, he's gonna beat this and we'll be fine." But as it turned out, it didn't, and it got a bit worse and worse and worse until it was finally said that "He's really getting... it's serious. All bets are off on trying to rehearse and trying to do a tour."

Vinny Appice here, and we were just talking about how strong things were for the band at that point. What started as a one-off had turned into something real with the future already taking shape.

We were scheduled to go out that summer and do more. And we probably would have did one more album after that, but we couldn't do it. Then it got to the point of Wendy calling me saying, "You better come to the hospital. This is, like, he's not gonna last the weekend."

So I was so sad, you know? What was really sad was at the funeral and Tony, Geezer and I are standing there and there's a casket and you're going, "Wow, one band member's in the casket." I'd never experienced that. So that was just... that broke me up, you know? And them too.

It was quite a time for the band And then a couple of months later or something, we did a show in London with Glenn Hughes singing as a tribute to Ronnie. But the weirdest thing was we rehearsed in Wales, which is where we always rehearsed, and when it come time to play Heaven and Hell, it's like a moment in that room. Like, whoa.  It's kinda weird, like Ronnie was there almost. You expect him to walk in the room and start singing, and instead Glenn's there, who's a great friend and great singer of course, and he starts singing Heaven and Hell. So that was another eerie, magical moment. Like, "Where's Ronnie?" So, it was sad.

It was really sad. You guys were so close, it seems like you were right there sort of having new life and a next phase for this band.

Yeah. Even the Radio City show, he was sick. You couldn't tell very much, but he was sick and he sang his heart out. He just gave it all he had and it was, of course, amazing. So that was a great show to record and put down forever, because ....

Thank goodness it was recorded.

Yeah, yeah. And he wore white. That's unusual. He wore white top and stuff. You don't see us in white.

No, I can't say I remember a time, whenever you guys wore white.

No. We all wear black until they invent a darker color.

I'm waiting. I'm waiting for that day as well.

Yeah. We're still waiting.

The songs are the sum of the parts coming together and contributions come from all involved to certain extents. Within your time in Sabbath and Heaven and Hell, is there a song that you feel most proud of in terms of how it came together and your input on the final version that fans heard?

I would say "The Mob Rules" and the reason is we were on tour for supporting the Heaven and Hell album, this is in 1980, and Warner Brothers called and wanted a song for the movie Heavy Metal, and they wanted the song from Black Sabbath obviously.

So we had a couple of days off, we were in England, and we wound up going to where John Lennon lived. Now, this was after John passed, and Ringo owned the house now, and there's a great studio in there. So they booked that studio and we went there for a couple of days, which was a whole other trip.

Here we are in John Lennon's house, where he filmed "Imagine," and there's a white room with a white piano in that room. There's mellotrons that he used and it was a big English mansion with a big wooden staircase, and we put the drums at the beginning of the staircase and put the mics on the top, kinda like Zeppelin used to do.

So that was a whole trip, and that was the first recording I did with Sabbath, and it was all, like, "Let's see what this is gonna sound like." This is the first time they actually recorded with another drummer. And we got the song down, we jammed on it, we put it together.

It wasn't a full song when we got there, but Tony had the riffs, he's the riff master, and they put it together, Ronnie wrote the lyrics and we just kept playing it, and it became "The Mob Rules." And so it was kinda special and after we finished, everybody was really excited, like, "Whoa, this is really good. It's kicking, kicking ass."

It's the kind of song that you hear it on the radio in your car and all of a sudden you're doing 90 on the freeway or the motorway 'cause it's got a lot of energy in it. So that was a definite moment.

And then at that point, up to that point, it was like I was in the band until Bill would come back and play with the band. But once we recorded that, I thought, "Well, that gave me a real big foot in the door that we recorded something together and doesn't look like we're gonna make a change." And that was the truth. The Mob Rules!

Vinnie, much has been said about Ronnie James Dio over the years. He's one of the more beloved figures in metal, and Wendy's done a great job, obviously, keeping his spirit and legacy alive through the Cancer Foundation events. Do you have a story that best represents the man you knew Ronnie to be from your time playing together?

When I first joined the band in 1980, supporting the Heaven and Hell album, I'm the new kid on the block, I'm learning these songs, I'm like, "Whoa, this is all new to me." I'm playing arenas. So one night we left the arena in the cars, the limos, we had two limos, and it was cold out, it was up in the north somewhere and there was snow on the ground.

So we pull outta the arena, go up the hill, and then we're gonna go toward the gate and leave and go to the hotel. And Ronnie goes, "Stop the car. Stop the car." Wow, that's weird. Why? There was some fans by the entrance, the gate and they were waiting there in the cold, and he said, "Stop the car," he got out and walked over to them.

I thought, "Wow." So I got out-... and walked over to them as well. And he signed autographs and took pictures with them and he cared so much for his fans that he did that and I was blown away. I was like, "Wow, what a nice thing to do,"

READ MORE: Ronnie James Dio's 5 Best Doom Metal Songs Outside Black Sabbath

The other thing, when we did Dio with the Holy Diver album, when we did the tour for Holy Diver, we were playing Hammersmith in London, and after one... I think we played there two nights. So after the first night, somebody came up, we finished playing and it was very cold out.

And they said, "Hey, Ron, there's about 50 kids outside, fans, waiting for us to leave and waiting for you," obviously. He said, "Bring them in. Okay, bring them in." So, he brought  the fans into the venue, sat them in the first two rows. We all came down, signed autographs, took pictures with them. They didn't have to stay in the cold. So he loved his fans. And this is before, obviously, the VIP package stuff. This, was free.

You just had to wait around and, and get lucky.

It was from the heart and, and Ronnie just loved his fans. And he loved his music. Those stories are just ... I'll never forget them. They're great.

Vinnie, as things turned out Tony and Geezer got to reunite with Ozzy and Ozzy got his great farewell with all three of the other original Black Sabbath members last year before his death. Having your own place in the Sabbath legacy, what were your thoughts on getting to see that play out with the celebration of the music as it did?

Well, even before that, a lot of people don't know but they were doing a tour in Europe, I was doing a tour with Dio in the States and Bill couldn't do the tour anymore so they called me and said, "Can you come out" Sharon Osbourne called and said, "Can you fly over and do this tour? Finish the tour in Europe with Ozzy?" And I said, "Yeah."

Ronnie was cool with it, he said, "You know, that's a great thing for you," and he was very supportive. So, I flew out and I wound up playing, I think it was a couple of weeks with Black Sabbath with Ozzy and that was very special because it was the first time they played with another drummer live, especially Ozzy. And it was great. Ozzy is hilarious. He kept throwing water on me in the show. We'd play and then a couple songs in, psh, water, I go, "Oh, man. Yeah, that's funny, oh." And all the drums are wet and they don't sound good anymore.

So, the second time he did that, the next day in the hotel before we left, Sharon comes up to me and says, "How's everything going, Vinnie?" She was very sweet to me and she asked how it was doing. I said, "Well, he keeps throwing water on me." She goes, "He did?" And that was the end of the water.

Then he also played, at that point he played with my brother Carmine on a tour years before that, and Carmine used to do a solo and Ozzy would go, "Carmine Apice on the drums." So, when I played with them, this was years later, he'd introduced the band and he introduced me as Vinnie Apice, and I went, "Ah, I hate that, you know. Uh, I'm Appice."

So, I told him the next day in the hotel before we left and said, "Oh, yeah, Carmine says Apice, I say Appice and my father said Appice, Carmine's mixed up and blah, blah, blah, blah." So, the next night he introduced the band and he was really nervous and he pointed to me and he looked very nervous, he goes, "Vinnie Appice!" I went, "Yeah!" So, he's very concerned, he wanted to make me feel comfortable and, happy and blah, blah, blah.

So, for the Prince of Darkness he was, he's such a sweet guy. That's all I gotta say.

Vinnie, gotta ask, what did you think of the Back to the Beginning event?

I thought it was great actually. I had to buy it. Oh, well, what are you gonna do? Can't get backstage everywhere. But I bought it, I thought it was fantastic. It would've been nice to be there because I had a lot of links to the band that a lot of guys up there didn't have, but that's called musical politics.

I totally enjoyed it, but it was sad at the end watching Ozzy. He so much wanted to get up and just do his thing and he couldn't get up. Good thing they strapped him in there 'cause he would've went for it anyway, you know?

But it was great to see them all, the original guys just playing those songs with Bill. Even Bill took his shirt off, that was shocking but Bill's I thought it was fantastic.

Vinnie, you've continued to stay active in the years since Heaven & Hell, Tell us what's on your plate at the moment. More Last In Line or anything else on the horizon?

We did a band called Last In Line, it was originally started with the original Dio members, Jimmy Bain on bass and Vivian Campbell on guitar and then Jimmy passed away. We got Phil Soussan on bass and then the singer was Andy Friedman. We did three albums or something like that. We were starting to work on a next album but we were changing singers so we've been a little stalled. So, it's Vivian, myself and Phil Soussan and we're going singer hunting now.

We're doing that and then I put together, just for fun, a thing called Sabbath Nights. It started kind of like, "Hey, you wanna do this show?" Somebody put it together. And we played all the Sabbath stuff and everybody enjoyed it. So, I thought, "Now, people really wanna hear this stuff." So I went ahead and put a band together, killer band, and we play a lot of stuff from the Dio era. And we throw some Ozzy stuff in there and a little bit of Dio.

We've been playing all over the place, so it's called Sabbath Nights and it's a lot of fun. We're not trying to sell albums. It's low pressure, you know? And I'm having a ball playing this stuff. I get to play "Sign of the Southern Cross" again.

Amazing.

And, uh, Turn Up the Night," "Heaven and Hell" and "Children of the Sea." It's a lot of fun for me, so I'm doing that. Then I do a lot of sessions here in my studio here

Awesome, so always keeping busy, as usual.

Oh, yeah. You gotta... You can't stop.

Many thanks to legendary drummer Vinny Appice for the interview. You can get the Heaven and Hell Breaking Out Of Heaven 2007-2009 box set now. And stay up to date with Vinny and his current bands through his website, Facebook and Instagram. Find out where you can hear Full Metal Jackie's weekend radio show here.

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